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Subject:Chinese scroll
Posted By: Fouad Wed, Jan 31, 2018 IP: 197.253.250.0

Hi everyone,

Could you please help me identify this scroll, I believe it's Chinese (maybe).
If you could shed some light on to this it would be appreciated.







Subject:Re: Chinese scroll
Posted By: Shawn Chong Fri, Feb 02, 2018

Definitely Chinese.

The previous owner wrote his name on it in simplified Chinese: Zhang Xue (maybe Zi) Liang

Above the artist's red seal it says: Guang Xu er shi ba nian sun wen/ 28th year of Guangxu Reign, (don't know what sun wen would mean).

Seems like a nice poem, but I'm not a native Chinese speaker, so I don't quite understand it. The writing is quite beautiful, though... so it seems authentically antique (and all the characters are traditional)!

Subject:Re: Chinese scroll
Posted By: Fouad Sun, Feb 04, 2018

Hi Shawn Chong

I thank you for your time, 1905 wow.

Thanks again
Fouad

Subject:Re: Chinese scroll
Posted By: I.Nagy Sun, Feb 04, 2018

Reading of inscriptions,
肅肅梧葉送寒聲
江上秋風動客情
知有児童挑促織
夜深籬落一灯明
It is a poem written by Song Dynasty poet Ye Shaoweng
(葉招翁)1200-1250、Title of poem; 夜書所見 ”Night written observations"
The poem in my rough translation,

Autumn wind came on the river, the leaves of plane trees are rustling, people feel the chill,
It touches the traveller with homesickness
The night is deep, there are some children who lit
the lights, searching for crickets on the fence

宋葉招翁 Sung Ye Shaoweng - Sung Dynasty - Ye Shaoweng
光緒二十八年  28th Year of Guangxu (1905)
孫文    Sun Wen ( or better known Sun Yat-sen,
the first president and founding father of the Republic of China)
Seal reads,
孫文信印  Official seal of Sun Wen

Inscription on the mounting,
張字良  Zhang Ziliang - Probably name of a previous owner.

It looks authentic, but you have to show it to an
expert for authentication.

With regards,
I.Nagy

Subject:Re: Chinese scroll
Posted By: Fouad Sun, Feb 04, 2018

Hi I.Nagy
Thank you for your time and effort, I will have it checked, just to let you know, there are two Scrolls.
If genuine what would be the value?

Kind regards

Subject:Re: Chinese scroll
Posted By: rat Mon, Feb 05, 2018

The name on the outside of the scroll (in bad handwriting) may instead be of Zhang Xueliang 张学良, which would make it rather too coincidental I think to be genuine. Also, Zhang's collection was sold through Sotheby's during the 1980s; if this scroll was among that group it would be easy enough to check. A quick google search for "Sotheby's Sun Wen" doesn't bring anything up that dates from that time though.

So I'm not convinced that this scroll is by Sun. Perhaps send photos to an auction house for an assessment. Here are some examples of his calligraphy for comparison:

http://www.360doc.com/content/13/0423/09/10983756_280283091.shtml

Subject:Re: Chinese scroll
Posted By: Fouad Thu, Feb 08, 2018

Hi Ray,

Thanks for your time and effort once again, I have sent some pictures to Sotheby's and awaiting response,will let you all know the outcome.
Thanks all.
Fouad

Subject:Re: Chinese scroll
Posted By: Fouad Tue, Feb 13, 2018

Hi guys,

Apologies to you Rat when I typed your name came as Ray. I got a response from Sotheby's they could not somehow value the pieces as it falls short of there minimum price.
Please find enclosed a copy of the email.
Any more information would be appreciated.
Also I am putting a different picture for the outer signature for your info.
"Second outer signature is from the second scroll, as I have two"

Thanks everyone 👌👍👏👏



Response from Sotheby's:



Thank you for contacting Sotheby’s.

Our specialists have reviewed the information you kindly provided. Unfortunately your property falls below our current selling thresholds, (£3,000 per item for furniture, ceramics, silver, jewellery, Chinese etc., £5,000 for sculpture and watercolours and £10,000 per work for Modern, Contemporary and Old Master paintings).
As our specialists are unfamiliar with values below these levels, Sotheby’s will be unable to either value or offer them at auction.

Additionally, we are unable to provide appraisals for objects that will not be sold by Sotheby’s. For further information please visit the Sotheby’s website.








Subject:Re: Chinese scroll
Posted By: rat Wed, Feb 14, 2018

No worries.

The second scroll is inscribed with Sun Wen 孙文(Sun Yat-sen). By saying that a scroll by Sun Yat-sen won't bring more than $3,000, I think the message from Sotheby's is that they don't think it's genuine.

This scroll by Sun brought triple the low estimate of $40,000 two years ago at Christie's, so Sotheby's would have jumped at yours if they thought it was ok.
http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/Lot/sun-wen-sun-yatsen-1866-1925-calligraphy-5876089-details.aspx

Subject:Re: Chinese scroll
Posted By: I. Nagy Thu, Feb 15, 2018

Thanks for the feedback on Sothebey's answer.

The reading on the mounting of the another scroll,
孫文 Sun Wen - in cursive style
and I am more inclined to read the name of previous owner,
張學良 - Zhang Xueling (and not 張字良 -Zhang Ziling)
(Senior general for the Nationalists and subsequently for the People`s Liberation Army)

With regards,
I.Nagy

Subject:Re: Chinese scroll
Posted By: I.Nagy Thu, Feb 15, 2018

Correction of misspelling,
張學良 -Zhang Xueliang
I,Nagy


Subject:Re: Chinese scroll
Posted By: I. Nagy Thu, Feb 15, 2018

Thanks for the feedback on Sothebey's answer.

The reading on the mounting of the another scroll,
孫文 Sun Wen - in cursive style
and I am more inclined to read the name of previous owner,
張學良 - Zhang Xueling (and not 張字良 -Zhang Ziling)
(Senior general for the Nationalists and subsequently for the People`s Liberation Army)

With regards,
I.Nagy


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